Today is a Leap Year! It only comes around once every four years, so there is something a bit magical about the Brigadoon-like February 29. So, go have fun (it is Friday, after all)–but first, some bits o’ seriousness.
This is an extra day–a freebie. So perhaps you can take some time to think about where you want Marquette, the feminist movement, or yourself (you lovely person you) to go in the next 4 years. What do you want to change by the time the next Leap Year comes around?
Please share with us your goals, hopes, and dreams (I am getting sappy in my old age), or things with which you are unsatisfied right now.
Here is what I want to happen by Leap Year 2012:
1) To be just months from re-electing either the first woman or the first African-American president!
2) To see the rights of women to control their bodies protected, and to have the eating-away of choice stopped.
3) To see the Wild GRRR Center up and running on Marquette’s campus.
4) To see an increase in the number of female full professors at Marquette.
5) To have all schools institute a comprehensive sex ed program so that everyone is safe and knowledgeable.
6) To never hear the word “rape” as a joke or the word “gay” as a pejorative.
How about you?
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Dashaway
femmemeister
Bento
“6) To never hear the word “rape” as a joke or the word “gay” as a pejorative.”
I think that we probably will reach the time in which “gay” is no longer a pejorative, though it might take a while.
I don’t think we’ll ever reach the time in which rape is not considered acceptable material for jokes. And to play the devil’s advocate, is that necessarily a bad thing? We as humans make jokes about murder, suicide, genocide, assault, robbery, various tragedies, diseases, disabilities, etc. all the time. While many of these jokes are offensive and in bad taste, they do serve a purpose, in that they allow us to laugh about all of the horrible things which happen in this world. It’s a way of fighting off the depression which sets in when you think about exactly what human beings are capable of. I don’t see how rape jokes are any different than any other joke about a disturbing subject. And while they may be, as I said, very offensive, I don’t know if the world is served by eliminating them. Violence has been used as a punchline in humor for centuries and will continue to be used in such a way forever, and there may be a positive reason for that.
Advocate–
I think that the people who do make jokes (not all people do) about things like genocide, diseases, disabilities, rape etc do so without really thinking of the implications. These comments may seem humorous to some, but really, they only serve to perpetuate whatever kind of stereotype or callus thinking that instigated the joke in the first place. I think the fact that we can make and laugh at these jokes is very telling–if we’re being truly considerate of other’s feelings and even a little bit compassionate, we in no way could even think about making these jokes. Cancer jokes become immediately unfunny when you suffer from cancer, use of the word “gay” as an insult ends when a friend comes out, etc. This upset often occurs when an individual suddenly identifies with the subject of the joke, but it doesn’t have to be this way. Not if we talked about these problems and explain how and why jokes about them can be harmful.
This kind of “humor” only serves to desensitize us to the problems in our world and then perpetuate the misconceptions that cause them. If I make or laugh at jokes about rape, I’m neglecting every single person affected. When I hear these kinds of jokes, it does not make me feel better about all the horrors of the world, it just makes me and any person touched by any of this sadness feel ten times worse knowing that there are people who would capitalize on the pain for a laugh. How about actually fighting human-caused atrocities with awareness and activism rather than with distasteful and harmful jokes?
Hullo Devil’s Advocate,
That is an interesting question you pose. It is true that humor serves an important purpose. It can allow people to get through some horrible things. And, while I am not a big fan of the idea of using “violence as a punchline” in general, I am positive that I make violent jokes every once in a while.
However, I think that the recent usage of “rape” jokes is qualitatively different. It is such a traumatic event that jokes that minimize rape are terribly insulting to rape survivors. For example, jokes such as “It’s not rape if the guy’s hot,” or “I would like to be raped by Kobe Bryant” are not made in order to help someone deal with a tough issue (such as the darkly humorous way cancer is treated in Wit), but instead demonstrate a lack of understanding of just how awful rape can be.
I can understand the urge to make awful things less awful through humor. But what does this do to the people who have gone through these awful things? Are they supposed to just laugh it off?
I also think that rape jokes are materially different from other violence-based jokes because, unlike other types of violence, rape victims and victims of domestic violence are often ashamed to come forward. People who are mugged are not afraid to go to the authorities. People who get into a brawl flaunt their injuries. But rape victims face the very real danger of being pilloried for something for which they are not responsible. Jokes that make fun of rape victims simply add to the sense of shame and make it less likely that they will come forward. If people (especially people in authority), constantly minimize rape, then why would a victim seek their assistance?
Long story short, I do not think rape jokes are meant to help people deal with a horrible thing. They are made b/c they are shocking (although the shock factor of rape jokes has gone down thru normalization in the last decade or so) and because rape victims are “easy targets.” The same goes for jokes about suicide victims, people with eating disorders, and people who are mentally or physically handicapped. Jokes that make fun of these people simply assert the dominance of those in power.
There is a place for dark humor, but not when people make these jokes without thinking about the reality behind the jokes. (Again, this is the difference between the humorous/serious way in which cancer is treated in Wit and making a joke about how rape victims are “sluts.”)
Lauren wrote, “Cancer jokes become immediately unfunny when you suffer from cancer, use of the word “gay” as an insult ends when a friend comes out, etc.”
I’ve found that most people who make cancer jokes are cancer patients. It’s a way of dealing with a horrible thing that has just happened to you. Now, using gay as an insult is simply making fun of someone. It’s just cruel and not funny. That’s not the sort of joke I meant; I was thinking of a bit more elaborate form of humor. And while “cancer jokes” often fall into the “insult” category, they don’t always.
I think you’re conflating two different kinds of humor: that which simply offends, and that which comments on reality in a skewed way. When John Cleese shoots a man who is attacking him with a banana in the chest in a self-defense class in Monty Python’s Flying Circus, people usually laugh. It’s not because they think random murder is funny. It’s because the situation is so absurd. The reason why it is funny is because we DO recognize how in real life such a situation would be so tragic and pointless, not because we don’t. If no one thought murder was bad and serious, the sketch wouldn’t be funny.
femmemeister, you make some very good points. But I’d say that the basic problem with all the jokes you mention is that they are offensive, unintelligent, and not humorous in the least. I have personally never heard a joke which involves rape which worked. But if one were to exist, it wouldn’t be making fun of the victims, it would be making fun of the rapists. Just like the successful cancer jokes generally don’t make fun of cancer patients, they make fun of cancer. That, in my mind, is where dark humor works. Going back to the John Cleese sketch, it is he, the murderer, who is the ridiculous character, not his victim.
So I think you are entirely correct that rape jokes are not meant to help people deal with a horrible thing. But I don’t see why, theoretically, they couldn’t be.
Ah–I would agree that, theoretically, there would be certain types of humor that might make jokes dealing with sexual assault acceptable–for example, if someone who was sexually assaulted used humor to help him/herself get through the experience.
However, I have not actually HEARD any jokes like that. But I do hear jokes ALL THE TIME that denigrate rape survivors or minimize the trauma of rape. It is this that we need to target. When “rape” is used as an automatic laugh-getter, that is a very dangerous phenomenon, and an insulting one. (And I do hear rape jokes get laughs a lot of the time. All people say is “Man, that test raped me,” and everybody else in the room chuckles. . . yikes. . .)
(I”m the Devil’s Advocate up above, btw. No longer speaking in devil’s advocate mode, so on to another name…)
femmemeister said, “And I do hear rape jokes get laughs a lot of the time. All people say is “Man, that test raped me,” and everybody else in the room chuckles. . . yikes. . .”
Yeah, I’ve heard stuff like that too. My guess as to why people laugh at that sort of thing (and I’m saying this as a committed optimist) is because they are uncomfortable and it’s a sort of nervous laughter. I admit that I occasionally laugh at things which I didn’t find funny at all simply because what the person just said was so offensive I have no idea how to respond.
Or maybe people are just jerks..
Anonymous Person: Please provide an example of a joke about rape that makes fun of the rapist.
I do not think that it’s possible.
I agree that there is a difference between dark humor and offensive humor, but I cannot envision a situation in which a joke about rape would fall under the dark category. True, humor can be therapeutic, but jokes that reinforce rape culture are not, in any way, therapeutic for victims. Just as jokes that reinforce stereotypes, from which prejudice and discrimination often follow, are not therapeutic and are therefore not funny. Sometimes there is a fine line between dark and offensive. Jokes about rape are just plain offensive.
And if you are indeed a “committed optimist,” why not be optimistic about seeing the end of rape jokes, or even the end of rape culture?
Amy said, “Anonymous Person: Please provide an example of a joke about rape that makes fun of the rapist.”
Well, as I said in my comment, “I have personally never heard a joke which involves rape which worked.”
Therefore, I have never heard a joke about rape that makes fun of the rapist, nor did I ever claim to have heard such a joke. I just don’t see why such a joke isn’t possible.
Amy said, “And if you are indeed a “committed optimist,” why not be optimistic about seeing the end of rape jokes, or even the end of rape culture?”
When did I say I don’t want to see the end of rape culture? When did I say I don’t want to see the end of what horrible, pathetic excuses for “jokes” about rape exist right now? All I’m saying is that humor sometimes has a strong positive value, and if, say, a rape victim finds humor to be a good way to deal with her situation, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
What I was being optimistic about wasn’t the person who said the “joke”, it was about the people in the room who laughed. I’m saying that they didn’t necessarily laugh because they thought it was funny. They might have laughed because they thought it WASN’T funny. That happens all the time.
Well, I’m glad we agree. Here is what you originally said which seemed to suggest otherwise: “I don’t think we’ll ever reach the time in which rape is not considered acceptable material for jokes. And to play the devil’s advocate, is that necessarily a bad thing?” and “I don’t see how rape jokes are any different than any other joke about a disturbing subject. And while they may be, as I said, very offensive, I don’t know if the world is served by eliminating them.”
Again, I am not disagreeing with you that humor is therapeutic. However, not ALL humor is therapeutic, as Femmemeister pointed out. And eliminating these jokes which are not therapeutic and ARE in my opinion, harmful, would be a step toward eliminating rape culture. In other words, eliminating these jokes is integral in changing cultural ideas about rape because these jokes perpetuate rape culture. For example, many rape jokes involve elements of rape myths, e.g., It’s not rape if the guy’s hot, which reflects the “Even women who say no mean yes, and they enjoy the act.” rape myth.
In my opinion, if we want to see the end of rape culture, we must change all of the seemingly small or seemingly insignificant contributers. This is an incredibly complex issue, but successful major changes are often the result successful successive baby steps, and I think eliminating jokes which in turn might contribute to eliminating rape myths, which in turn might contribute to altering ideas about rape, which in turn might contribute to ending rape culture, would be a positive step.
Thoughts?
I agree with everything you said in this most recent comment, Amy. For the record, in my original post, since I was playing devil’s advocate, I was arguing a point which I don’t entirely believe.
I say not entirely because I think that therapeutic humor has value. But my own personal position is that your statement “eliminating these jokes which are not therapeutic and ARE in my opinion, harmful, would be a step toward eliminating rape culture” is entirely correct.